Short summary of the thesis of this post:(Note:the cool lady on the motorcycle is my Mum!)

Edit: This is the key study if you are boggled by all this:https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19142760 It shows that melatonin in urine or saliva is HIGHER when people get more light…Urinary & saliva output of melatonin is LOWER when people are kept in the dark more…(This shows that the breast cancer studies for melatonin are ALL FLAWED!)

The clinical trials all assume that if you pee out lots of melatonin, that your body’s levels are high…But a 2009 study showed that when they put people in total darkness for longer periods of time, that their output was lower…

Saliva testing showed that when people sleep more in the dark, which produces more natural internal medicine, that people’s saliva showed LESS melatonin…All the cancer studies suffer from this false assumption…

So they falsely conclude that people with cancer have lower melatonin…But people with cancer are peeing or ‘saliva-ing’ out less melatonin…

Meaning that their levels internally are actually higher…When you pee or spit out more melatonin, that means you are getting tons of daylight…

It is an inverse relationship…This means that people with cancer have higher internal levels of melatonin…Meaning they should not be adding more…They should be getting MORE light, no more darkness…

Forgetting about all the science, we KNOW that people with cancer are low in Vitamin D3 , the sunshine vitamin…

So adding more of a darkness hormone should be a no brainer-meaning NO…

end of summary…

It just doesn’t make any sense…

We know that: Tryptophan converts into 5HTP, which then converts into Serotonin, then to Melatonin…

We know that:Estrogen levels go up when Serotonin levels go up…

We know that:Tryptophan can promote cancer…

Interestingly, when subjects slept for extended periods of time, which increases melatonin production, their melatonin OUTPUT decreased…???

Yes…Melatonin OUTPUT levels are DECREASED when humans are kept in continual darkness…

Which means that: People with lower levels of melatonin output will have HIGHER levels of melatonin being used in their Pineal gland…!

Which means that when you test melatonin output levels of people, those people sleeping the most in darkness will have LOWER output levels…

This means that conclusions of previous Melatonin studies are OPPOSITE or false…Previous studies have tested melatonin output levels, & when they have found LOW output levels, they have assumed that melatonin in the body is low…But that is FALSE…

Which means that women in studies whose output levels of melatonin were low, in fact, got plenty of sleep in darkness…In fact, those women would have more sleep in darkness than women whose OUTPUT levels of melatonin were high…

It appears that if you get plenty of sleep in the dark, that you don’t output much melatonin…If you DON’T get much sleep in the dark, you OUTPUT HIGH amounts of melatonin…

Is this the flaw in the melatonin arguments???

I THINK SO!!!!

So when a study says something like this: “An increased concentration of urinary aMT6s was statistically significantly associated with a lower risk of breast cancer “…UNDERSTAND THIS:WHEN MELATONIN OUTPUT IS INCREASED IN SALIVA OR URINE OR WHEREVER, THAT MEANS THAT YOU ARE GETTING LESS SLEEP & THAT YOUR BODY HAS LESS MELATONIN INSIDE!!!! So people who are sleeping LESS, have lower incidence of breast cancer…

Why?

Again, because if you sleep MORE in a dark place, your melatonin OUTPUT is LESS…

If you sleep much LESS, you output MORE melatonin in saliva or urine…More melatonin is excreted rather than used…Those who sleep less have the lower risk of breast cancer…

I BELIEVE THIS IS THE FLAW IN ALL THE MELATONIN STUDIES VIS A VIS CANCER…

ps. I began this study of melatonin & cancer because the lump in my breast got much worse, weirdly textured & bumpy like gravel, when I was taking melatonin…It reverted back to smooth & uniform when I quit…This started my healthy distrust of melatonin…Sari Grove… *a Chinese ‘oncologist’ told me to quit the melatonin, after examining the lump by feel (palpation)…

Some studies:

Melatonin does NOT lower estradiol, nor does a LACK of melatonin cause tumour growth…

“Melatonin, too, increases cortisol in older women (Cagnacci, et al., 1995) and cortisol is increased in aged, healthy people of both genders (Ferrari, et al., 1995). Since tryptophan is the most fundamental precursor for both serotonin and melatonin, this line of evidence suggests that the amino acid shouldn’t be raised (with advancing age) to minimize the fostering of tryptophan side effects from serotonin-melatonin-cortisol ramifications.”

“Furthermore, tryptophan side effects in regards to greater mortality were shown in animal experiments (e.g., Catrina, et al., 2001) using melatonin, whereas the study authors cautioned:

“[…] melatonin had a deleterious effect on the survival rate raising the question whether it is correct to assume that the hormone shows lack of adverse reactions.”

I will add to this post, as ideas come up! Sari Grove…

Ok: So here’s a for example…This study

“Urinary melatonin levels in human breast cancer patients.”

makes this statement…

” It was found that 24 hour urinary melatonin excretion in cancer patients was on the average 31% decreased as compared to the controls. This change was accompanied by a 33% increase in serum cortisol levels in the cancer patients. ”

Ok…So…the study says that melatonin OUTPUT in cancer patients was LOWER (31% lower)…

But what do we now know??? THAT lower melatonin OUTPUT indicates HIGHER melatonin being used by the body…

We know that when people sleep MORE in utter darkness, that melatonin level OUTPUTTED are LESS…

When people sleep LESS in darkness, their output of melatonin is INCREASED…

What does this mean?

It means that cancer patients have HIGHER levels of melatonin, since their OUTPUT is lower…

Cortisol by the way is modified by Vitamin D3, sunshine, light, infrared…

So it makes sense that melatonin would be higher & Vitamin D lower in cancer patients…

We know that cancer responds to light, is killed by Vitamin D3, sunshine…

So it makes sense that people with cancer would be sleeping more & getting less light…

It does NOT makes sense to supplement a cancer patient with melatonin, since lower melatonin output indicates their levels internally are higher anyways…

This twist between output of melatonin & what studies are recommending is the key…The studies are recommending melatonin for cancer based on a FLAWED assumption…

Summary: Hi…My post is about a flaw I found in all the melatonin studies…In 2009, they found that when people slept MORE in darkness, that their melatonin OUTPUT was less…All the cancer studies, are based on the assumption that the more you output melatonin, the higher your levels are, & vice versa…But that is false…People with cancer, output less melatonin, which ACTUALLY means that their internal melatonin is higher…people who output more melatonin in their urine & saliva, actually have LESS melatonin in their bodies…This inverse relationship skews ALL the conclusions from these cancer studies…

Human retinal light sensitivity and melatonin rhythms following four days in near darkness.
Danilenko KV, et al. Chronobiol Int. 2009.
Show full citation
Abstract
The rods in the retina are responsible for night vision, whereas the cone system enables day vision. We studied whether rod function in humans exhibits an endogenous circadian rhythm and if changes occur in conditions of prolonged darkness. Seven healthy subjects (mean age+/-SD: 25.6+/-12.3 yr) completed a 4.5-day protocol during which they were kept in complete darkness (days 1 and 4) and near darkness (<0.1 lux red light, days 2 and 3). Electroretinography (ERG) and saliva collections were done at intervals of at least 3 h for 27 h on days 1 and 4. Full-field ERGs were recorded over 10 low-intensity green light flashes known to test predominantly rod function. As a circadian marker, salivary melatonin concentration was measured by radioimmunoassay. The ERG data showed that rod responsiveness to light progressively diminished in darkness (significantly lower a- and b-wave amplitudes, longer b-wave implicit time). The decrease in amplitude (b-wave) from day 1 to day 4 averaged 22+/-14%. After correction for the darkness-related linear trend, the circadian variations in ERG indices were weak and usually non-significant, with slightly higher responsiveness to light during the day than night. Rod sensitivity (by K index) tended to decrease. Strikingly, the overall amount of melatonin secretion (area under 24 h curve) also decreased from day 1 to day 4 by 33.1+/-18.9% (p=.017). The drift of the melatonin rhythm phase was within the normal range, less than 56 min over three days. There was no significant correlation between the changes in ERG responses and melatonin. In conclusion, scotopic retinal response to (low-intensity) light and the amount of melatonin secreted are diminished when humans are kept in continuous darkness. Both processes may have a common underlying mechanism implicating a variety of neurochemicals known to be involved in the regulation of both photoreceptor and pineal gland function.

PMID 19142760 [PubMed – indexed for MEDLINE]
Full text
Full text at journal site

More: Tuesday December 12, 2017:

While looking for other studies which show urinary or salivary excretion of melatonin vis a vis either bright light or dark light exposure or any other controllable factors, I found two more…

One study found that urinary excretion of melatonin was MORE during exposure to BRIGHT light…This means that when you get lots of sunshine, you EXCRETE MORE melatonin…(people with cancer tend to be VITAMIN D deficient(the sunshine vitamin)…

THUS people with cancer, who tend to be sunshine deficient, would excrete LESS melatonin…(this means that people who are excreting less melatonin in their urine would have HIGHER internal levels…)All the cancer studies vis a vis melatonin excretion make the FALSE assumption that since melatonin excretion is LOWER in cancer patients , that people with cancer have low melatonin…

this is FALSE…This is why people with cancer should NOT supplement with melatonin…People with cancer should be waking up early, exercising outdoors in BRIGHT light, & getting less sleep, not more sleep…They need more sunshine…

“Melatonin excreting rate in urine was significantly higher in Bright than in Dim”…
from this article/study:The Influence of the Bright Light Exposure during Daytime on Melatonin Excreting Rate in Urine…

Another study looks at alcohol…Alcohol RAISES tryptophan & serotonin & later on melatonin in the body…This study found that when people drank alcohol, their salivary excretion of melatonin was less…This supports the theory that when you boost internal melatonin, that you excrete LESS melatonin…

Also…“Evening Alcohol Suppresses Salivary Melatonin in Young Adults”
Tracy L. Rupp , Ph.D.,, Christine Acebo & Mary A. Carskadon
Pages 463-470 | Received 28 Nov 2006, Accepted 15 Jan 2007, Published online: 07 Jul 2009

Note: People who work at night don’t see the sun…The famous night shift workers study assumes that night shift workers have lower melatonin…Based on excretion levels…This is FALSE again…If you work at night & don;t see the sun, your levels internally should be higher…You sleep all day…So you will excrete less melatonin…All the night shift workers study turn on the premise that because the excrete less melatonin, that they have less in their bodies…This is again FALSE…

Conclusion: People with cancer excrete less melatonin…People with cancer have higher INTERNAL melatonin levels…People with cancer should NOT supplement extra melatonin…People with cancer should seek out more sunshine to raise Vitamin D levels…

People with cancer need to stop believing poorly formed clinical studies that come to false conclusions…